pig throwing up

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pig throwing up

Postby Elliott » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:42 am

Let me start off by saying we had two show pigs. Last week we lost one of them very suddenly and unexpectedly. The popular thought among the locals was pneumonia. The breeder threw in the theory of cardio/heart attack/stroke. HogDoc patiently read a very lengthy description of what I witnessed with the pig and he thought what I described sounded like hemorgage bowel syndrome (sp?). I googled it and it sounds like he could be correct.

The other pig has seemed fine. Since none of the above theories sounded contagious we did not treat the other pig. The dead pig wasn't officially tested cause we only own the two pigs so it wasn't worth the test.

This morning though I go out to feed our lone piggy. I would guess (purely a guess) that he is about 60 lbs. He had used the bathroom some but it wasn't everywhere. He had emptied his feed. Whether he was already up or he'd heard me come through the gate, i don't know but he was up and greeting me when I arrived at his pen. Happily wagging his tail. I let him out into the general lot/training area while I cleaned up his pen. His water pipe was still fairly full and is is usually needing to be filled. While he was out he was digging in a mud puddle. At tha point he threw up. I put him back in his pen and he threw up 3 more times. His pen had not shown signs of him having thrown up. Between throwing up which happened in a 5-10 minute span he was happily eating his breakfast. His throw-up looked like big snot wads the color of corn (like snot had been mixed with feed). I do not know if he has a fever.

Do I react immediately and try to treat the symptoms or do I wait a little while and see if he continues to throw up?
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Postby Gilbertowner » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:20 am

Do you think he has a blockage in the intestance (sp?)
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Postby HogDoc » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:50 am

In that outside area are there any weeds growing that look like this?

http://tgcgarden.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/redroot-pigweed.jpg
Last edited by HogDoc on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gilbertowner » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:53 am

HogDoc pressed on link and it pulls up a 404 Error about the link not there are something along those lines.
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Postby buckibri » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:54 pm

Just curious why the concern about pigwed?

Since he is in Mississippi I would think they would have more Palmer Amaranth than Pigweed in most cases.
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Postby Elliott » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:00 pm

The link worked for me.

I definately do NOT have anything that looks like that in our lot area. Actually, I was thinking just this morning about how that lot is in better condition as far as no weeds compared to our actual yard. It seems the goats are leaving the grass and eating the weeds. There are two trees in the lot. One is an Oak and the other a Mimosa. In the past the hogs we have had ignored the Mimosa and the goats would practically climb the tree and eat the leaves. This year though the goats are ignoring the tree and the pigs have been nibbling on low branches.

That said this morning the pig did not bother the tree. He had his mind on the huge mud puddle that we have due to daily two weeks of rain. He was rooting around in the puddle the first time he threw up.

I have been out there twice more since first posting this and there has been no more throwing up. Each time I go out there he is lying down, but he gets up upon my arrival and nibbles some more food and then gets himself something to drink.

There is one possible theory...........and I will feel horrible if I caused this but I have been putting some Weight Builder in the goats' feed. Somehow they are managing to eat all their feed and the Weight Builder is sinking to the bottom of their trough. Last night I emptied that out into the pig's feeder (Weight Builder ...not goat feed) and then gave the goats fresh food. I gave the pig fresh food as well. I wouldn't think the supplement by itself would have caused him to get sick but perhaps if it was too much it would.

Yesterday since it rained pretty heavily it had cooled off considerably. So I turned one of his two fans completely off and turned the other fan down to its lowest setting. This morning I turned both fans back on. Since the ground is still all wet the air just seems hot and muggy out. I've noticed that the pig is not lying in front of the fans. He isn't "acting" like he feels bad. It was just alarming for the throw up to look like a big snot ball.
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Postby HogDoc » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:10 pm

Is it weight builder from Farnam that is like 40% fat?

I don't see anything that is in that product that will hurt the pig but it is possible that it ate more than it should (Stuff with 40% fat tastes really good) and got an upset stomach.
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Postby DrAmy » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:50 pm

Pigs rarely vomit, but if they do, I am usually concerned about a gastric ulcer. Ulcer pigs tend to be off-feed too. If an ulcer gets bad enough, the pig starts bleeding into the stomach and you see dark, tarry digested blood in the poop and the pig gets really pale from the blood loss. I start by feeding ulcer pigs high fiber, easily palatable feedstuffs, like rolled oats or alfalfa. Some people try some Tagamet too with varialbe results. AGain, not for sure if this is what is going on with your pig, but ulcers are always the first thing on my mind with puking pigs.
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Postby HogDoc » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:12 pm

buckibri wrote:Just curious why the concern about pigwed?

Since he is in Mississippi I would think they would have more Palmer Amaranth than Pigweed in most cases.


Because it kills pigs deader than dead and makes them sicker than sick. I just posted one about a week ago. It is also widely distributed in every state in the US.
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Postby Elliott » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:13 pm

[img:bccc37f3e4]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/Lambchop88/photobucket-25568-1342816211783.jpg[/img:bccc37f3e4]
patch of weeds I found in the lot but he wasn't in this area this morning or last night

[img:bccc37f3e4]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/Lambchop88/photobucket-10826-1342817261875.jpg[/img:bccc37f3e4]
what he puked up

[img:bccc37f3e4]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/Lambchop88/photobucket-36587-1342817245578.jpg[/img:bccc37f3e4]
pig puking

[img:bccc37f3e4]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/Lambchop88/photobucket-53347-1342817391586.jpg[/img:bccc37f3e4]
also puking

[img:bccc37f3e4]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/Lambchop88/photobucket-47981-1342817355488.jpg[/img:bccc37f3e4]
What he was doing when he first puked although this pic is from last night

[img:bccc37f3e4]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/Lambchop88/photobucket-10782-1342817498220.jpg[/img:bccc37f3e4]
pig eating after he puked...you can still see the puke spots on the floor



The pig has continued to eat and drink throughout the day. Seems to be eating well. Wags his tail and gets up every time we go down there. Checked on him 4 times now and haven't seen anymore puke.

The Weight Builder is by Farnam and is in the green tub.
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Postby HogDoc » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:56 pm

Dr Amy is right about ulcers being high on the list. I went past it because of the pig eating well but probably should have mentioned it.
I don't know what the weeds are I just can't tell from the little picture. If you want to go out there and get rid of them I'd sure be in favor of that idea.
24D is a good thing.
Just keep your eye on him and if he keeps doing it going back to the ulcer tx is a good plan.
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Postby Elliott » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:43 pm

Well since posting this he hadn't thrown up that I could tell. I suppose he could have and then walked through it enough that I didn't see it in the pen though. However, tonight he did it again. The pig was out in the lot and my daughters were claiming to be "working him" but truth be known he was rooting around in the dirt quite a bit. So.......the common denominator between this time and last time was that he was up and moving about and that he was digging in the mud. The first time he threw up or hacked up something it had a lot of dirt in it to where it was pure brown. The second time he hacked up it was clear and bigger than the size of a golf ball and looked like mucas/snot.

He doesn't act like he feels bad and as for eating he seems to have taken a growth spurt as far as his eating is concerned. Since the feed store was closed I went to Dollar General and got some Oats and mixed it with his feed. He seems to love it and finished it up along with his 18% feed. He's drinking. Sometimes more than other times. I've had the fan turned down during the day and have started turning it off at night as it has continued to rain here. I figured if I wasn't hot outside then neither was the pig. Besides he isn't lying in the path of where the fan is blowing. He has a good bit of output which looks to be the correct consistency. He appears "happy". His eyes don't look sick. When he is allowed out in the lot he runs around. The lot was mowed down this afternoon. I haven't put anything on the weeds yet, but the soft ground and mud puddle has his attention above all else.

Tonight after he hacked up/threw up twice I decided to give him a shot of Baytril 100.
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Postby Elliott » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:08 am

Ok.........saw a definate change this morning. When he first got up he was a bit wobbly on his back legs. After a minute or so he seemed to get control of that and was fine. I decided it best not to let him out of his pen this morning. You could tell he wanted/expected to get out but he was not allowed. He had drank very little but I did witness him drinking. It had not been hot last night so I had even turned the fan off. This morning I have one of the two fans on full blast but it is directed towards one particular corner so that he can avoid it if it is too much.

Anyway........the change is his breathing. When he is not eating it isn't as noticeable although while your back is turned you occassionally hear a sound that you think is him. However, when he eats (still very eager to eat) then he sounds just like a child that is very sick/congested and is trying to eat and breath at the same time but is having trouble.

In my EXTREME limited opinion I feel he needs to be treated for a cold and/or a pneumonia scenario. Do you agree? What should I be giving him and how often? I gave him the "Baytril 100: last night. At my current disposal I also have some "Lincomycin 300". I also have something that my friend gave me when he thought the other pig had pneumonia but I can't read his handwriting. Looks like Predu or Preder. Not sure. Hate to give him something that I can't look up to research. Another breeder/friend last night had recommended some Banamine along with the Baytril. I don't currently have any of that. Because of my limited experience I don't think it would be intelligent of me to randomly start giving out drugs that I know nothing about. However, I definately think we are at a point that treatment needs to be given. Every vet that I have spoken to at our local vet's clinic all claim to not have pig experience because they just don't see a lot of pigs around here in our town and/or the breeders do their own medicating. VERY good well thought of vets please don't get me wrong. It is THEM telling me that they aren't knowledgeable/experienced in this area. The last one I spoke to which is the one that those of us that show like to use told me that pnemonia (sp) is what he most often hears about around here. He wasn't talking about this pig. He was being asked about our pig that died last week.

Next question is if you guys recommend another medicine other that what I have said that I have then where do I purchase it?
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Postby Elliott » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:19 pm

Been obsessing more about the pig....... :)


Researched the Lincomysin and decided that even if this was not a respiratory thing that it wasn't going to hurt him. So I gave that.

Researched the pneumonia and the pig's behavior just doesn't seem to fit the symptoms of pneumonia. He eats very well. He's up and around and very perky/sassy acting.

Decided that I just don't know if he is "throwing up" bile from stomach or if he is "hacking up" congestion. Even though I witnessed it and it appeared to be throwing up I just don't know. This would be good to know.

Decided to give him wormer medicine given that he's been here about a month and he's been digging around in the mud and dirt.

Then..............I got to thinking about the floor he's lying on. Usually during the winter months the pigs are on a good bit of shavings which is on a wooden floor. This is our first time to be raising the pigs during the summer. So we had decided to not use the shavings until the pigs were older and have been rinsing the floor off twice a day. There has also been a baby pool in the pen with the thought that the pigs could use to cool off but strangely enough they've turned it into their toilet. So it has been getting emptied out onto the floor twice a day and then rinced out. Which means that underneath the wood floor has been water probably and perhaps the wood has been soaking up odors. In all the research that I've been doing the word "bacteria" keeps coming up. So.............. the baby pool is now gone. Both fans are now on and shavings are on the floor.

The pig is loving the shavings. Acts like he is in an amusement park playing with the shavings.

Don't know if this will help but the "behavior" of the pig doesn't seem to show anything is wrong except for the congested sound while he was eating.
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Postby DrAmy » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:28 am

Your Baytril treatment is an excellent choice for respiratory stuff. I suspect your friend's handwriting may say "Predef" and this is used for inflammation and swelling. I use it a lot for lameness and so on. The Banamine is a good choice for sick pigs with fevers, but sounds like your pig likely isn't febrile if he is acting normally. If the Baytril doesn't kick the respiratory stuff, you may want to try a dose of Draxxin or Excede. All of these drugs are prescription, so you will have to obtain them from your vet. Still not totally sure about the puking - most ulcer pigs are not eating well. Deworming was also a good idea - in your situation, you may need to deworm pigs every 6 weeks or so. Not sure I have much else to add right now. Good luck with him.
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